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SoonerTimes Home > SoonerTimes > OU Sports > On new transfer rules. ... I predict there will be lots of turmoil.


On new transfer rules. ... I predict there will be lots of turmoil.
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Walt
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 Posted: Tue Feb 12th, 2019 02:40 am

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When I started this thread I was aware that Tatum was likely going to transfer. I was really just trying to have a little fun as I knew that it wouldn't be long before it was made public.

While I truly think this is a bad thing for the long term health of the game, I do get the idea about making it easier for the kids to transfer. This just isn't the way to do it.

My guess is that by this time next year the numbers of players in the Portal will have more than doubled. At some point it will become difficult to maintain continuity.

SoonerMike
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 Posted: Tue Feb 12th, 2019 04:14 am

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WishBone wrote:
KC2.may be wrong but I believe the scholly is pulled once the entrance to Portal has transpired.....may be wrong but I think thats the way it goes.If a player enters the Portal and is allowed to stay on Scholly then the spot is not opened up for another player?????May be wrong but thats the way I heard it.In one of my previous posts that was one of my concerns.....this whole "Portal"thing lies in favor of the University and the Coaches.
https://www.si.com/college-football/2019/ncaa-transfer-portal-rules-list
This article by SI says the scholarship can be pulled at the end of the semester.
And the NCAA says other schools still can't contact players until after their present school has placed their name on the transfer portal.
It is much more common across college sports for players to transfer. Check out wbb, mbb, softball: all have lots of transfers in and out.
Ya gotta live in todays world if you want success in todays world.
Fans may support restrictive rules against transfers, or more liberal rules favoting athletes, but you don"t need to get your panties in a twist about it. Learn and use it to your advantage

StatesEye
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 Posted: Tue Feb 12th, 2019 01:53 pm

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WishBone wrote: KC2.may be wrong but I believe the scholly is pulled once the entrance to Portal has transpired.....may be wrong but I think thats the way it goes.If a player enters the Portal and is allowed to stay on Scholly then the spot is not opened up for another player?????May be wrong but thats the way I heard it.In one of my previous posts that was one of my concerns.....this whole "Portal"thing lies in favor of the University and the Coaches.https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2018/6/19/17481492/ncaa-transfer-rule-changes-2018

The NCAA just made it a lot riskier for players to seek transfers 7 comments It’s part of a package of transfer reforms that includes some really good stuff. What will this part mean? By Alex Kirshner@alex_kirshner Jun 19, 2018, 9:41pm EDT

Earlier in June, the NCAA did two objectively good things for its athletes:
    It got rid of a national rule that effectively required players to get permission from their current schools in order to transfer. Many conferences still have that rule. It said Division I football players could play up to four games without burning a redshirt year.
Yeah, everything’s relative and all, but that right there’s a hot streak.
The NCAA just did something else that might be OK, but it’s different. In what the NCAA termed an “expected next step,” the Power 5 conferences voted Tuesday to make transferring a bigger risk for athletes who want to leave their current schools.
As part of No. 1 on that two-item list above, players no longer have to get “permission to contact” other schools about potential transfer opportunities. Instead, players have to give their current schools notice of their “intent” to transfer. All of that differs from officially transferring and enrolling at another school. Almost all the time, when news breaks that a player is transferring, he hasn’t formally done it yet.
Going along with that, the power leagues have made it so that if a player tells his school of his intent to transfer, the school can cut off his scholarship, effective at the end of the term.


“Schools can cancel the aid of a student-athlete as soon as he or she provides written notification of transfer, but the aid may not be reduced or canceled until the end of the term,” the NCAA explains in its announcement of the move. “Schools can re-award the scholarship at the end of the term, subject to other financial aid rules.” The Power 5 (get to vote on their on rule changes on certain issues, and the mid-major leagues often follow suit. Sixty-five teams are part of the “autonomy conferences,” which are part of the NCAA’s governance structure. But it’s schools who make these calls.


Why do this? Here’s the explanation from the chairman of the NCAA’s Student Athlete Advisory Committee, former Missouri-Kansas City basketball player Noah Knight:
“In fairness to the transfer student-athlete’s teammates, coaching staff and overall team dynamic, the Division I SAAC felt that a student-athlete should not be able to give notification, search for other opportunities, then return to their institution if dissatisfied with their options with no repercussions.”
On its face, nothing about that seems that unreasonable here. If a player says he’s on the way out (or at least shopping for a way out), it should be OK for schools to plan for the future by freeing up a scholarship to use elsewhere.

That a scholarship automatically continues through the end of the term is appropriate. Players shouldn’t get yanked out of class. CBS Sports’ Dennis Dodd points out how this might look in football:



Dennis Dodd ✔ @dennisdoddcbs Transfer reform not so much: Per legislation passed today, those merely notifying school of transfer in summer after semester is over -- there are many -- can have their aid cancelled immediately. http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/media-center/news/autonomy-conferences-adjust-aid-rules …
5 6:51 PM - Jun 19, 2018 Twitter Ads info and privacy Autonomy conferences adjust aid rules In an expected next step, the autonomy conferences Tuesday voted to allow schools to cancel a student’s scholarship at the end of a term if the student-athlete notifies the school of an impending...
ncaa.org


This rule will affect different players differently. If a former five-star recruit wants to browse other schools, his current program probably won’t nix his scholarship. If a middling three-star who’s been fighting for a spot on the two-deep does, maybe the school will.


All in all, this isn’t college sports’ biggest deal. But it’s unusual, because unlike most things the NCAA does, it’s hard to tell right away if it’s a good or bad idea.

On the one hand: Players know what they’re getting into when they try to transfer, and schools should have a right to look forward.

On the other hand: College students make mistakes sometimes, and it’s maybe not the best to put them at risk of losing scholarship money if they make a mistake like this one.

StatesEye
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 Posted: Tue Feb 12th, 2019 02:09 pm

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Yep. I'd have no doubt whatsoever that may sons (when they were 18 to 22) would have been able to make the best decision on something as monumental as this. Absolute assurance. :rolleyes:

Obviously, my wife and I would have played a significant role in such a decision, but not every student athlete would have such a support system, and a large number of them would not have such a network. There are so many "bad roads" for this development (...and it just a "first step", good lord!!!). In effect, it has removed the responsibility of institutions of higher learning for looking after the best interest of their students in an arena that is increasingly BIG, BIG business. I'm absolutely sure the P5 schools are making this decision taking "what's best for students" into account. The P5 schools are really called the "autonomy schools" within the NCAA.....for good reason.


Oh well. FREE MARKET and buyer beware. Not my problem...... I want a Natty!! 


Ya know..... I hear Cemetery Guy yelling in my ear.

Last edited on Tue Feb 12th, 2019 02:16 pm by StatesEye

Walt
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 Posted: Tue Feb 12th, 2019 03:00 pm

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StatesEye wrote:
Yep. I'd have no doubt whatsoever that may sons (when they were 18 to 22) would have been able to make the best decision on something as monumental as this. Absolute assurance. :rolleyes:

Obviously, my wife and I would have played a significant role in such a decision, but not every student athlete would have such a support system, and a large number of them would not have such a network. There are so many "bad roads" for this development (...and it just a "first step", good lord!!!). In effect, it has removed the responsibility of institutions of higher learning for looking after the best interest of their students in an arena that is increasingly BIG, BIG business. I'm absolutely sure the P5 schools are making this decision taking "what's best for students" into account. The P5 schools are really called the "autonomy schools" within the NCAA.....for good reason.


Oh well. FREE MARKET and buyer beware. Not my problem...... I want a Natty!! 


Ya know..... I hear Cemetery Guy yelling in my ear.



When our children were young in the 12 to 18 range we did our best to instill in them that they were responsible for their actions and their decisions. We always tried to give them advice, but they were free to make the decision. As part of this when they made a decision they had to live with it. Understanding consequences to me and my wife was part of our children's growing up.

By the time these kids sign their LOI they are old enough to live with their decisions and actions.

From what I read above about the changes they make sense to me. If a kid wants to transfer then let him transfer. However, in the process the school should be able to do whatever they need to do to make their plans to replace that player.

Having a system where a player can put his name out there to transfer and then leave the school hanging out there until he actually does transfer isn't a good situation. This leaves the coaches hanging until he actually does make the transfer.

When a kid actually enters the portal then he should be as good as gone. There is no good going to come out of a process where the kid can shop himself around and then stay at his current school. I don't think that it is logical for coaches to just ignore the idea that the kid who wanted to transfer is a player they can count on.

Allowing the player who has entered the portal can stay on scholarship until the end of his term is logical.

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 Posted: Tue Feb 12th, 2019 03:41 pm

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Seems like the current rules are going to encourage players to do some behind-the-scenes shopping around so they have an idea if someone wants them before they declare their intent and possibly forfeit their current scholarship. Which can put coaches who are contacted in an awkward situation. I remember Bob was always quick to point out that he never talked to Baker until after he was a student at OU.

And it seems like the coaches who would cheat at recruiting would cheat at this too. Coach Hotseat might say "Well, Johnny, I know things haven't worked out like you planned at Bigshot State, with Billy Bob Betterthanyou getting your starting spot. But we can sure use you." Might be more tampering going on than before.

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 Posted: Tue Feb 12th, 2019 08:21 pm

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When our children were young in the 12 to 18 range we did our best to instill in them that they were responsible for their actions and their decisions. We always tried to give them advice, but they were free to make the decision. As part of this when they made a decision they had to live with it. Understanding consequences to me and my wife was part of our children's growing up.


By the time these kids sign their LOI they are old enough to live with their decisions and actions.


Agreed. As children get older the lessons of consequences should become more…….consequential. However, I doubt many informed parents that are concerned about the choices their children make would let them make really bad decisions without at least some counsel and they certainly wouldn’t advise something that is against their interests.  


From what I read above about the changes they make sense to me. If a kid wants to transfer then let him transfer. However, in the process the school should be able to do whatever they need to do to make their plans to replace that player.


Having a system where a player can put his name out there to transfer and then leave the school hanging out there until he actually does transfer isn't a good situation. This leaves the coaches hanging until he actually does make the transfer.

When a kid actually enters the portal then he should be as good as gone. There is no good going to come out of a process where the kid can shop himself around and then stay at his current school. I don't think that it is logical for coaches to just ignore the idea that the kid who wanted to transfer is a player they can count on.

Agreed. The university should not have to take the hit. That’s unfair. What is also unfair, stupid and unethical is placing universities and students in situations where conflicts of interest arise. This is especially the case when many students will not have had the support structure in place that you described as giving to your children. These development will place into conflict sophisticated operations with legions of attorneys, advisors and thousands upon thousands of years of accumulated human experience against single individuals with the experience of 18 to 22 year olds. Some will have a solid support network of parents, former teachers, coaches, etc. Many (a significant number….maybe even most) will not have that. Who do you think will lose?    

Mechanisms are already in place to allow students to transfer out of bad situations. Sure, there are some things that can be done to make this more fair to student athletes……especially the FEW that are truly in bad situations. These developments are not the right path. It will lead to what I describe above, and that description is just ONE of many bad developments possible.

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 Posted: Tue Feb 12th, 2019 08:30 pm

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Triple Option wrote: Seems like the current rules are going to encourage players to do some behind-the-scenes shopping around so they have an idea if someone wants them before they declare their intent and possibly forfeit their current scholarship. Which can put coaches who are contacted in an awkward situation. I remember Bob was always quick to point out that he never talked to Baker until after he was a student at OU.

And it seems like the coaches who would cheat at recruiting would cheat at this too. Coach Hotseat might say "Well, Johnny, I know things haven't worked out like you planned at Bigshot State, with Billy Bob Betterthanyou getting your starting spot. But we can sure use you." Might be more tampering going on than before.
Absolutely.....it happened in the past and it will happen now. Especially considering the economic implications today as compared to the past.

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 Posted: Tue Feb 12th, 2019 08:53 pm

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Triple Option wrote: Seems like the current rules are going to encourage players to do some behind-the-scenes shopping around so they have an idea if someone wants them before they declare their intent and possibly forfeit their current scholarship. Which can put coaches who are contacted in an awkward situation. I remember Bob was always quick to point out that he never talked to Baker until after he was a student at OU.

And it seems like the coaches who would cheat at recruiting would cheat at this too. Coach Hotseat might say "Well, Johnny, I know things haven't worked out like you planned at Bigshot State, with Billy Bob Betterthanyou getting your starting spot. But we can sure use you." Might be more tampering going on than before.Imagine Johnny's shock and disappointment when Steve Stillbetterthanyou (who Hotseat was also "recruiting") also shows up in the portal.


Last edited on Tue Feb 12th, 2019 08:54 pm by StatesEye

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 Posted: Tue Feb 12th, 2019 09:08 pm

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Okay.... I'm going to step back from this. I'm now officially PO'ed . Heh.

I'll just close my last post on this thread by saying that Teddy once told the "forces" of college athletics that they will find a way to regulate themselves for the common good or the federal government would do it for them. Those that do not learn from history..........

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 Posted: Wed Feb 13th, 2019 01:38 pm

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Check this out:
http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/25967506/portals-waivers-future-college-football-free-agency

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 Posted: Wed Feb 13th, 2019 03:22 pm

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47Straight wrote:
Check this out:
http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/25967506/portals-waivers-future-college-football-free-agency


Thanks 47! What do you know? An article that actually tries to be objective and fair and present all sides of the issue. We used to call that journalism. Now we call it a miracle!

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 Posted: Wed Feb 13th, 2019 09:49 pm

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OU's only DT in the 2019 class Derek Green has decided to transfer after a couple of weeks of being at OU.

StatesEye
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 Posted: Thu Feb 14th, 2019 03:07 pm

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Sorta related.... Read how frequent transfers in large numbers have changed women's basketball at OU.....at least in part.

https://newsok.com/article/5621824/ou-basketball-sherri-coale-and-her-sooners-facing-harsh-reality-brutal-season-what-gives

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 Posted: Thu Feb 14th, 2019 03:19 pm

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StatesEye wrote:
Sorta related.... Read how frequent transfers in large numbers have changed women's basketball at OU.....at least in part.

https://newsok.com/article/5621824/ou-basketball-sherri-coale-and-her-sooners-facing-harsh-reality-brutal-season-what-gives


Here is what I get out of that long dissertation on what is wrong with Coale's team. Her core principles are what college sports should be and it is the way she wants her program to be.

Coale says: “I think more than ever maybe, athletics can serve the purpose of maybe being the last bastion to teach accountability, responsibility, discipline, high expectation, aspiration, all those things,” she said.

“More than ever, they need this.”

The above is what these college sports should strive to be.

It is very sad that a Coach like Sherri Coale will flounder because she is striving to do things right.

StatesEye
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 Posted: Thu Feb 14th, 2019 03:51 pm

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Walt wrote: StatesEye wrote:
Sorta related.... Read how frequent transfers in large numbers have changed women's basketball at OU.....at least in part.

https://newsok.com/article/5621824/ou-basketball-sherri-coale-and-her-sooners-facing-harsh-reality-brutal-season-what-gives


Here is what I get out of that long dissertation on what is wrong with Coale's team. Her core principles are what college sports should be and it is the way she wants her program to be.

Coale says: “I think more than ever maybe, athletics can serve the purpose of maybe being the last bastion to teach accountability, responsibility, discipline, high expectation, aspiration, all those things,” she said.

“More than ever, they need this.”

The above is what these college sports should strive to be.

It is very sad that a Coach like Sherri Coale will flounder because she is striving to do things right.
Yep....that theme was all throughout the piece.

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 Posted: Fri Feb 15th, 2019 01:33 pm

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http://footballscoop.com/news/ncaa-review-new-transfer-guidelines/

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