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SoonerTimes Home > SoonerTimes > OU Sports > OU vs Iowa State my breakdown


OU vs Iowa State my breakdown
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SoonerRick46
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 Posted: Thu Oct 12th, 2017 06:32 pm

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I've manged to force myself to watch this game three times, twice a play at a time to see what really happened.

We had one group play very well, and the rest didn't. I thought the O Line played very well, played their hearts out and is obviously very well coached and have plenty of talent. Coach B was probably the best hire of the last several years. He recruits very well, does an excellent job of coaching them up and they perform.

Some may question this as IA St primarily used a three man front and dropped 8 into coverage. Even still, their run recognition by their LBs and CBs was very good, they filled the gaps well and tackled very well. They also showed hustle and effort on every play, something we did not do. And Lanning is just a quality athlete and played very well at MLB and as a QB running the ball.

But when you look deeply Sermon averaged 5 yards per carry and Baker averaged 5.18 yards per carry which is pretty good. Sermon is a powerful back, runs hard and doesn't go down without a fight and quite often makes yards after contact. What he doesn't have is enough experience to see the best hole that may open and doesn't have the explosiveness that Adams has. Adams had an early run of over 23 yards and is averaging over 10 yards per carry for the year. We really missed him in this game once he was injured.

I was surprised that we didn't see at least some of Sutton after the injury to Adams as he's the fastest back as far as pure speed that we have. After the loss, I spent a couple of hours on the phone with my inside source and it was related to me that the coaches don't totally trust Sutton yet. He has trouble with pass pro, knowing all the plays and is still thinking too much.

I seriously doubt that Adams will be back this week as that ankle sprain is worse than people have been told. If Sermon gets hurt this week, I don't think the coaches are going to have a choice but to play him, and he might get some snaps this week out of necessity. Anderson just hasn't lived up to his hype. Some guys never make the transition from HS to Div I just as some never make the transition from Div I to Pro. I don't see it that way though. I still see someone who is hesitating and thinking and not mentally over his injuries yet.

We also now know just how important Lamb is to the WR core. He at the very least takes a lot of the attention of the secondary freeing up some of the other WRs. After he and Andrews got injured, the passing game kind of disappeared. I also have learned this week that Baker just doesn't trust the rest of the WR group. Brown has dropped too many balls he should have caught, and I counted six times that Smallwood was open, Baker looked right at him and looked away again. I also found out that Calcaterra has dropped quite a few throws in practice and while he was in the game for Andrews after his injury, Baker did not throw to him even though he was open a couple of times. I believe it's time to burn Rambo's red shirt and give him a shot. At this point, it can't hurt.

Baker is still making the same mistake. Against a prevent type defense, you have to take what the defense gives you and just keep marching down the field. I counted over ten times when he had a WR open short and decided not to throw it to them and try for a bigger play. Twice that cost us sacks and were basically drive killers.

Now on to the question on everyone's mind, the defense.I know that IA St isn't a true spread team, but there were several times where they lined up with four wide and sure gave the look of a spread team.

I decided to call my coaching friend in Florida. I spent almost three hours on the phone with him this week. First off I asked him to read the article on TFB. He had watched the game as we talk almost weekly. Once he read the article I asked him if I was crazy, or where my prior concerns well founded.

Spread offenses are very difficult to stop for almost every team. I've talked before about how they are designed with a contingency for every possible defensive strategy if the offense has the talent to execute all those contingencies. But there are ways to slow them down and at least get some stops.

He says that Mike's defense is too complicated. He said it was obvious that they were thinking and many times over thinking things. He said especially with some younger players, the defense needs to be as simple as possible for them to learn and get comfortable with what we're doing. He also felt we were easy to read pre-snap what the calls were, making it easier to attack us.

He also stated that if that article was true, no wonder we didn't tackle well and we don't make more plays on the ball when it's thrown. He said in that scenario, you have to spend so much time every week learning the nuances of your "new assignment" that there wouldn't be any time to work on fundamentals and that's why we're not progressing as a defense and appear to be regressing.

We also talked about Garry Patterson and how his defense just simply stymied Oklahoma State's offense. He felt that that was why Patterson was such a good defensive coach as his defense is pretty simple. His defenses allow the players to know their assignments cold which frees them up to react with confidence and aggression. He also said that allows the more experience players to read what's coming faster as they aren't thinking about what they have to do and they are then "free" to make plays.

We also discussed about playing in the prevent style defense against spread offenses. He said that can work as long as the players were comfortable with what they were asked to do, tackled well and swarmed to the ball once the play was on. All things we're not doing.

I also asked him why he thought that our D Line was not effective as I felt it could be. He confirmed the TFB article again and said that we are too predictable with what we are going to do along the line. There aren't any stunts, blitzes are obvious and easy to account for in most cases. I told him I thought that Lampkin and Mann were our best true D linemen and he agreed. He said they both have the natural ability and strength to penetrate and make plays and said we need more of them. The only way to counter that, he said, was to mix things up more along the line and be less predictable.

I also had a long conversation with my inside source who basically confirmed most of that article as well. They stated that the players are frustrated with the defense because it was too complicated for them, and it make it harder for them to be aggressive, and confident in their own abilities. They stated that this experiment with having Kelly learn so many positions has been a bust as he's not playing like he could because he's got too much to think about and some of the players are losing their "heart" and will to play as hard as they can.

We also talked about the coaches meeting in the film room on Sunday. Again, that was some heated affair with plenty of yelling and angry coaches. While Ruffin is tasked with working with the DTs on technique, it was Mike who had the final call on what was run and how the line was used based on Mike's game plan for the week.

Riley's public statements aside, he was not happy with the defensive coaches or the way the players were being handled. He also took some of the blame as he said he din't do the best job of calling plays either and on hind sight would have done a few things differently. So it's come down to calling plays and overseeing the team as a head coach wasn't as easy as he thought it was going to be. As to what was going to happen going forward, my source wouldn't say. They said it was yet to be determined based on how the rest of the season goes.

We've also talked about pulling/benching players that weren't performing. They confirmed that Riley doesn't hesitate to do so but Mike is very reluctant to do that because he doesn't trust the backups. So I raised the question, if the starters aren't getting it done, what do you have to lose? Their response: "I know".

I think I've made my thoughts pretty clear over the last couple of weeks, but it was good to get some confirmation from sources I trust. I've been out of the game for several years, so I too sometimes question if my understanding is as good as I think it is because the game has changed quite a bit since I played. With that said, there are some fundamentals that never change, and I eluded to those yesterday in a couple of my posts.

So I decided this week I was just going to post not only what I saw with my own eyes, but what people that have even more knowledge than I have had to say and let you all draw your own conclusions. I'll be happy to answer any questions when I can.

Now, let's go beat down the whorns and get this ship righted again. If we lose this week, things could spiral down out of control.

47Straight
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 Posted: Thu Oct 12th, 2017 06:46 pm

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Thanks Rick

Attachment: 1 that wasnt chicker.jpg (Downloaded 124 times)

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 Posted: Thu Oct 12th, 2017 06:46 pm

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Sooners became a good defense towards the later half of last season presumably running the same defense......why Can’t we be at least that good now?

Seems like practice doesn’t teach the team the defense, they have to play games to learn the defense.....

Maybe we need smarter players on defense...I am serious....some of the best players are very smart...,,

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 Posted: Thu Oct 12th, 2017 06:46 pm

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Sooners became a good defense towards the later half of last season presumably running the same defense......why Can’t we be at least that good now?

Seems like practice doesn’t teach the team the defense, they have to play games to learn the defense.....

Maybe we need smarter players on defense...I am serious....some of the best players are very smart...,,

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 Posted: Thu Oct 12th, 2017 07:00 pm

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Thanks for the excellent write up and info. 

With regard to the complexity of Mike's defense, wasn't it his mantra when he came back in 2011 that the defense was going to be simplified for the same positive reasons you gave?  Was it not simplified, has it just become complicated again, or was Venables trying to teach organic chemistry?

And I'm guessing McNeil's frustrations are similar or identical to what caused us to lose Jerry Montgomery?

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 Posted: Thu Oct 12th, 2017 07:04 pm

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What’s exactly is so complex?

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 Posted: Thu Oct 12th, 2017 07:29 pm

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My question is, can or will Mike simplify his schemes
for Texas. Or does he understand the problem? Something that bothered me, he said maybe I need to get some more help
to players that can't make the plays????

Fly

Last edited on Fri Oct 13th, 2017 06:04 pm by Fly

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 Posted: Thu Oct 12th, 2017 07:49 pm

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To me and I'm ignorant of football .. Last time I sat foot on a field it was 8th grade OL for a wishbone Team.. that being said .. It looked like OU ran alot of 3 man fronts and never got pressure on the QB .. Given we are all unhappy with Mike. My question to SoonerRick is what to you think of Ruffin as a DC ??


Thanks!!

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 Posted: Thu Oct 12th, 2017 07:57 pm

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captnop wrote:
To me and I'm ignorant of football .. Last time I sat foot on a field it was 8th grade OL for a wishbone Team.. that being said .. It looked like OU ran alot of 3 man fronts and never got pressure on the QB .. Given we are all unhappy with Mike. My question to SoonerRick is what to you think of Ruffin as a DC ??


Thanks!!


Ruffin has a good reputation. He did well at Texas Tech and East Carolina when he was there. I've sen improvement in the D Line's technique. I almost never see a stunt or a twist or a change along the front from an attack stand point. I'm being told that is on Mike and not Ruffin.

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 Posted: Thu Oct 12th, 2017 07:58 pm

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Fly wrote:
My question is, can or will Mike simplify his screams
for Texas. Or does he understand the problem? Something that bothered me, he said maybe I need to get some more help
to players that can't make the plays????

Fly


My question to that is if they can't make the play what do you have to lose by trying someone else? Who knows, some guys just play better than they practice.

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 Posted: Thu Oct 12th, 2017 08:01 pm

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Zgeo wrote:
What’s exactly is so complex?

It's a question of who fills what gap and who has what man. When that changes every week, it's hard to be fluid and react and not think. You see the confusion on the field the minute an offense runs out a formation that they haven't practiced. They all look at each other and the sidelines. I've seen them hold up their arms towards the sideline like "what do we do now?". If your scheme stays pretty much the same each week, by know the players would know where to be and who to "cover".

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 Posted: Thu Oct 12th, 2017 08:15 pm

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Based on that game, Lamb is to OU as Washington is to OSU in terms of importance. You take away Washington and OSU's receiving corps wouldn't even be talked about. I hope he can perform 100% in this game.

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 Posted: Thu Oct 12th, 2017 08:28 pm

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SoonerRick46 wrote:
Zgeo wrote:
What’s exactly is so complex?

If your scheme stays pretty much the same each week, by know the players would know where to be and who to "cover".



Which is what TCU under Bumpas(until he retired)/Patterson has been doing for ages. I really wish OU would go with this philosophy and rely on their talent and instincts, more so than trying to think on every dang play.

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 Posted: Thu Oct 12th, 2017 08:35 pm

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Yes!! Lamb is very important .. If he's healthy for whole ISU game we are probably talking about another ugly win ...

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 Posted: Thu Oct 12th, 2017 09:40 pm

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My question... Any concerns with Seibert's field goal kicking? He sure has the punting and kick-offs down. I think I read he is at 50% on FG's.

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 Posted: Thu Oct 12th, 2017 09:51 pm

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K2C Sooner wrote:
My question... Any concerns with Seibert's field goal kicking? He sure has the punting and kick-offs down. I think I read he is at 50% on FG's.

Riley says they have "complete confidence" in him...ie. coach speak. The truth is they don't have anyone better.

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 Posted: Thu Oct 12th, 2017 10:46 pm

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Did our safeties make a single play? Always late in coverage and nary a tackle that was noticeable.

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 Posted: Thu Oct 12th, 2017 10:51 pm

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charliedontsurf wrote:
Did our safeties make a single play? Always late in coverage and nary a tackle that was noticeable.

Will Johnson had 8, Steven Parker and Sylvie 3 each.



Defensive Statistics

Defensive Statistics (Final)
2017 Oklahoma Football
Iowa State vs #3 Oklahoma (Oct 07, 2017 at Norman, Okla.)
. . . . . .
## Oklahoma Solo Ast Total

12 Johnson, Will 4.....4.....8 .

10 Parker, Steven 1....2....3...... . . . . . . .
28 Sylvie, Chanse 1...2....3 . . . . . . . .

Last edited on Thu Oct 12th, 2017 11:11 pm by SoonerSpock

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 Posted: Thu Oct 12th, 2017 11:20 pm

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I think we all agree there was indeed a "break down"

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 Posted: Thu Oct 12th, 2017 11:22 pm

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To me OU is not putting pressure on the QB if you give him time he can find a receiver. I know I am just a fan and do not know that much. I don't think Baylor or Iowa state had that good of offensive line. Great breakdown of the game Rick.

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 Posted: Thu Oct 12th, 2017 11:22 pm

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SoonerRick46 wrote:
Zgeo wrote:
What’s exactly is so complex?

It's a question of who fills what gap and who has what man. When that changes every week, it's hard to be fluid and react and not think. You see the confusion on the field the minute an offense runs out a formation that they haven't practiced. They all look at each other and the sidelines. I've seen them hold up their arms towards the sideline like "what do we do now?". If your scheme stays pretty much the same each week, by know the players would know where to be and who to "cover".


They were pretty good near the end of last season....why can’t they pick up where they left off?......

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 Posted: Thu Oct 12th, 2017 11:27 pm

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The too much thinking and not enough attacking talk has been going on here for years and years but yet it is still an issue. I'm guessing that has to do with coaches being stubborn more than anything.

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 Posted: Thu Oct 12th, 2017 11:33 pm

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Great breakdown Rick. I appreciate the insight you give. While we usually see the defense improve over the course of the year. This year we have obviously regressed a lot! If you watch the Ohio State game this defense was unbelievable. They all swarmed to the ball like I've never seen a Stoops defense do. They tackled very well and were aggressive. So why? Why in the heck are we so different now?

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 Posted: Thu Oct 12th, 2017 11:44 pm

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soonershok wrote:
Great breakdown Rick. I appreciate the insight you give. While we usually see the defense improve over the course of the year. This year we have obviously regressed a lot! If you watch the Ohio State game this defense was unbelievable. They all swarmed to the ball like I've never seen a Stoops defense do. They tackled very well and were aggressive. So why? Why in the heck are we so different now?

Excellent point,,,Sooners defense was very good the first game,,,,

What is the deal.......??the defense was not too complex for the players in the first game.....why the too complex excuse now?....

I do t buy it....it is on the players.....

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 Posted: Fri Oct 13th, 2017 12:14 am

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...some good insights SoonerRick46, as I've come to expect and really appreciate.
Being there and watching that game play out, I'm still dismayed at the play of OUr linebackers. They just never seemed to be a factor. And overall, the inability to tackle by most who had a chance to was even more disconcerting. It's hard to reconcile the relative sterling defensive performances vs. the Buckeyes with the horse dump performance vs. Baylor & Iowa St.
You somewhat alluded to an attitude of discontent among the defense. That's unfortunate. It could result in a lack of effort if they get behind or face adverse field position. Worrisome.

I thought last season Riley had learned the vital importance of running the football for his "Air Raid' offense to produce. Perhaps not. The Cyclones were in a prevent defense most of the 2nd half. Oklahoma has arguably one of the best offensive lines in college football, and a stable of stud hoss RB's, but they were kept in the barn most of the 2nd half. Concerns me.

If the Sooners are at the Texas 35 yd. line or closer and it's 4th down, GO FOR IT! Siebert is a good kickoff weapon and a good punter, but field goals are not his forte. I'd rather see Lincoln dial up a 4th down play. Even if it fails it's as good as a punt or a missed field goal. The Sooners need touchdowns this Saturday, not 3 point attempts.

I'm as nervous as a virgin at a prison rodeo. Mentally, shaking like a dog sh*tt*ng razor blades. Oklahoma can WIN this football game. Whether they WILL is subject to speculation. I'm cautiously optimistic, but tense as a long-tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs.

Want to see the coaches exploit every opportunity, exhaust every resource, press every advantage.

Want to see the players PLAY, like it's the very last game they'll ever play. Want to see some swarming like mean-ass "Red Ants" to the football. Want to see some big hits. Want to see an "OSKIE" for God's sake. Want to see some old school Sooner Smash Mouth. Want to see some "Bosworth" like linebacker play. Timely sacks, ripped out fumbles. Want to see the Oklahoma defense fly around the field with their hair on fire.

Pee Wee Herman's boys are starting to believe. Oklahoma's status as the Big 12 bell cow is on the line. Sooners have a chance to put the genie back in the bottle. The media and most of the nation will be watching.

So, Oklahoma Sooners, here's your chance.

PLAY LIKE A CHAMPION!


OU, OU, OU!!!

47Straight
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 Posted: Fri Oct 13th, 2017 12:27 am

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SoonerRick46 wrote: He says that Mike's defense is too complicated. He said it was obvious that they were thinking and many times over thinking things. He said especially with some younger players, the defense needs to be as simple as possible for them to learn and get comfortable with what we're doing.
The Winning Edge

IV.  EVERY COACH KNOWS MORE THAN HE CAN TEACH
    A confused player won't play well
    Simplicity
    Security
    Consistency

Jim Mackenzie's Winning Edge is 50 years old and some of it may not be valid today.  However, I think #4 is as true today as it was then.

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 Posted: Fri Oct 13th, 2017 12:27 am

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Zgeo wrote:
soonershok wrote:
Great breakdown Rick. I appreciate the insight you give. While we usually see the defense improve over the course of the year. This year we have obviously regressed a lot! If you watch the Ohio State game this defense was unbelievable. They all swarmed to the ball like I've never seen a Stoops defense do. They tackled very well and were aggressive. So why? Why in the heck are we so different now?

Excellent point,,,Sooners defense was very good the first game,,,,

What is the deal.......??the defense was not too complex for the players in the first game.....why the too complex excuse now?....

I do t buy it....it is on the players.....


The first game players only had one key to read on a play. Now in the 5th game we may have had 4-5 different keys on the same formations and instead of reacting to the one key they had week one they have to think which key is the appropriate key this week. Is it key 1 or 2 or 3 or 4? Often players just get confused and bust the play.

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 Posted: Fri Oct 13th, 2017 12:29 am

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soonershok wrote:
Great breakdown Rick. I appreciate the insight you give. While we usually see the defense improve over the course of the year. This year we have obviously regressed a lot! If you watch the Ohio State game this defense was unbelievable. They all swarmed to the ball like I've never seen a Stoops defense do. They tackled very well and were aggressive. So why? Why in the heck are we so different now?

No question the primary reason is we not playing with the same abandon nor are we tackling with the same effectiveness. But we should not forget that the Ohio State offense is not nearly as dynamic as most Big 12 offenses. They don't stretch and attack the field like most Big 12 offenses do with as many formations.

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 Posted: Fri Oct 13th, 2017 04:09 am

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OU Chinaman wrote:
...some good insights SoonerRick46, as I've come to expect and really appreciate.
Being there and watching that game play out, I'm still dismayed at the play of OUr linebackers. They just never seemed to be a factor. And overall, the inability to tackle by most who had a chance to was even more disconcerting. It's hard to reconcile the relative sterling defensive performances vs. the Buckeyes with the horse dump performance vs. Baylor & Iowa St.
You somewhat alluded to an attitude of discontent among the defense. That's unfortunate. It could result in a lack of effort if they get behind or face adverse field position. Worrisome.

I thought last season Riley had learned the vital importance of running the football for his "Air Raid' offense to produce. Perhaps not. The Cyclones were in a prevent defense most of the 2nd half. Oklahoma has arguably one of the best offensive lines in college football, and a stable of stud hoss RB's, but they were kept in the barn most of the 2nd half. Concerns me.

If the Sooners are at the Texas 35 yd. line or closer and it's 4th down, GO FOR IT! Siebert is a good kickoff weapon and a good punter, but field goals are not his forte. I'd rather see Lincoln dial up a 4th down play. Even if it fails it's as good as a punt or a missed field goal. The Sooners need touchdowns this Saturday, not 3 point attempts.

I'm as nervous as a virgin at a prison rodeo. Mentally, shaking like a dog sh*tt*ng razor blades. Oklahoma can WIN this football game. Whether they WILL is subject to speculation. I'm cautiously optimistic, but tense as a long-tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs.

Want to see the coaches exploit every opportunity, exhaust every resource, press every advantage.

Want to see the players PLAY, like it's the very last game they'll ever play. Want to see some swarming like mean-ass "Red Ants" to the football. Want to see some big hits. Want to see an "OSKIE" for God's sake. Want to see some old school Sooner Smash Mouth. Want to see some "Bosworth" like linebacker play. Timely sacks, ripped out fumbles. Want to see the Oklahoma defense fly around the field with their hair on fire.

Pee Wee Herman's boys are starting to believe. Oklahoma's status as the Big 12 bell cow is on the line. Sooners have a chance to put the genie back in the bottle. The media and most of the nation will be watching.

So, Oklahoma Sooners, here's your chance.

PLAY LIKE A CHAMPION!


OU, OU, OU!!!


I remember last year when Jordan Evans had a “face the facts talk “ with his Dad, Scott Evans about not trying hard, not playing like a guy that wanted to play at the next level every play....it switched on a light bulb and Jordan Evans played great after that, .. I think Jordan Evans knocked all three Auburn QBs out of the Sugar Bowl and broke two of their arms just by tackling hard..., Maybe that is what the defense needs...personal accountability , not “blame it on Mike”. Because right now no one on the defense is getting a chance to play at the next level....

Now that I think about it the defense got a lot better once Jordan Evans became a force ...one guy stepping up his game made a huuuuge difference...

Last edited on Fri Oct 13th, 2017 04:57 am by Zgeo

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 Posted: Fri Oct 13th, 2017 05:21 am

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OU Chinaman wrote:

Pee Wee Herman's boys are starting to believe. Oklahoma's status as the Big 12 bell cow is on the line. Sooners have a chance to put the genie back in the bottle. The media and most of the nation will be watching.

So, Oklahoma Sooners, here's your chance.

PLAY LIKE A CHAMPION!


OU, OU, OU!!!



Now that is hitting the nail on the head with the hammer!!! We need a double digit win for certain. I am beginning to fear the LR era will be similar to the Gary Gibbs era and Saturday could go a long way toward establishing whether that will or will not be the case.


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