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SwampSooner
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Since a lot people on this board want to burn Bob in Effigy  (small town outside of Purcell), I thought we should put together a list of head coaching favorites to find out where we stand.

So which son of a Schnellenberger is your flavor of the week?

I understand Les Miles will be available after the season.  A lot of people have nasty comments about Les from  his "Let'em Rip" days that they can pull out and use the 1st time his team has a TD taken off the board because time had expired.

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Son of Schnellenberger? I wasn't aware that Donnie Duncan was still the AD.

Bob Stoops in his current form has made Oklahoma not relevant. Oklahoma is 1 and 2 and is out of the playoff race in mid September.

I think some people are bigger Bob Stoops fans than Oklahoma fans.

Tom Herman is on the short list and not because he beat Oklahoma but because of his overall resume.

At 5 million a year, Oklahoma can get any coach out there except Saban and Buyer.

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Justin Fuente

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Sadly I now find myself in favor of him being replaced. I honestly think Bob was the best Coach Oklahoma has ever had. What he did in this day and age of College football is unreal but I do believe he has reached a point in his life he is no longer willing to do what needs to be done.
I don't blame him for that but it's time to move on to someone who is looking to make their mark and make whatever sacrifices are required to have a top flight program.
I have no idea who that person is but they are out there.

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Sadly he will be here as long as Borden is still here

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He is not perfect.

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tcnguyen wrote:
Sadly he will be here as long as Borden is still here

Perfect.

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Cemetery Guy wrote:
Justin Fuente

I like that one as well.

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ClintA.Adams wrote: Cemetery Guy wrote:
Justin Fuente

I like that one as well.

You guys can't be serious with Fuente!  What has he done that makes you think he is a savior of OU football?

He is a good kid and a good coach, but he sure doesn't have the kind of resume that jumps off of the paper at you.

The only one I see out there is Tom Hermen.

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tennsooner wrote:
Sadly I now find myself in favor of him being replaced. I honestly think Bob was the best Coach Oklahoma has ever had. What he did in this day and age of College football is unreal but I do believe he has reached a point in his life he is no longer willing to do what needs to be done.
I don't blame him for that but it's time to move on to someone who is looking to make their mark and make whatever sacrifices are required to have a top flight program.
I have no idea who that person is but they are out there.


I don't agree completely, but this is a very good post.

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LSU just fired Les so he is available now!

Last edited on Sun Sep 25th, 2016 09:20 pm by SwampSooner

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SwampSooner wrote:
LSU just fired Les so he is available now!

For real?????

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I hope he gets hired somewhere else. I like Les:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKA7r2zGIxI

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Walt wrote:
ClintA.Adams wrote: Cemetery Guy wrote:
Justin Fuente

I like that one as well.

You guys can't be serious with Fuente!  What has he done that makes you think he is a savior of OU football?


Savior? I thought we were looking for a coach.

I'm not saying "don't look at Herman." But Fuente did a bang up job at Memphis and seems to be doing pretty well in the 20 minutes or so he's been at Va. Tech. Prior to getting the job at Memphis he was the OC at TCU where they went undefeated in 2011 and he developed Andy Dalton.

I liked the guy when he was here and got jerked around by the coaching staff. Nothing's changed on that part, he seems like he can win, he knows how to overcome adversity, he's young, and I get the feeling that he would continue what Stoops has done as far as running a clean program, something I'm less certain Herman would do.

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Walt wrote:
ClintA.Adams wrote: Cemetery Guy wrote:
Justin Fuente

I like that one as well.

You guys can't be serious with Fuente!  What has he done that makes you think he is a savior of OU football?

He is a good kid and a good coach, but he sure doesn't have the kind of resume that jumps off of the paper at you.

The only one I see out there is Tom Hermen.


(y)

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Cemetery Guy wrote: Walt wrote:
ClintA.Adams wrote: Cemetery Guy wrote:
Justin Fuente

I like that one as well.

You guys can't be serious with Fuente!  What has he done that makes you think he is a savior of OU football?


Savior? I thought we were looking for a coach.

I'm not saying "don't look at Herman." But Fuente did a bang up job at Memphis and seems to be doing pretty well in the 20 minutes or so he's been at Va. Tech. Prior to getting the job at Memphis he was the OC at TCU where they went undefeated in 2011 and he developed Andy Dalton.

I liked the guy when he was here and got jerked around by the coaching staff. Nothing's changed on that part, he seems like he can win, he knows how to overcome adversity, he's young, and I get the feeling that he would continue what Stoops has done as far as running a clean program, something I'm less certain Herman would do.

I like him.  But, honestly I can't see what the attraction would be for him to be head coach at OU.  Doing a bang up job at Memphis isn't a great achievement.  Not saying he might not turn out to be a great hire at OU.  Just saying he is a gamble just as hiring anyone with his type resume would be a gamble.

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We just need a new DC and with him a new defensive coaching staff......

I will give LR one more game to pull it together.....

If we lose to Texas fire them all that day......

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Walt wrote:
ClintA.Adams wrote: Cemetery Guy wrote:
Justin Fuente

I like that one as well.

You guys can't be serious with Fuente!  What has he done that makes you think he is a savior of OU football?

He is a good kid and a good coach, but he sure doesn't have the kind of resume that jumps off of the paper at you.

The only one I see out there is Tom Hermen.



There's a lot of coaches I would take a chance on over Bob Stoops. He's made Oklahoma not relevant and has embarrassed the Oklahoma name one too many times on the national stage. Looking past the financial aspects, he's hurting Oklahoma more now than he is helping it when it comes to a winning reputation standpoint.

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Walt wrote:
Doing a bang up job at Memphis isn't a great achievement. 


Seriously?

Toledo went 6-5 in 1989 and hired Nick Saban who went 9-2 in 1990 then left to be an NFL assistant. The next year under Gary Pinkel Toledo's record was 5-5-1

Bowling Green went 2-9 in 2000. They hired Urban Meyer, who went 8-3 and then 9-3. Utah was 5-6 in 2002. The next two years under Meyer they went 22-2.

Steve Spurrier was successful at Duke before going to Florida and Bobby Bowden showed he could coach at Howard and at West Virginia before building Florida State into what it is today.

Being able to win at a place like Memphis is, if anything, more impressive. Houston has some tradition and history, and better recruiting areas. It could also be the case that Herman, who is only in his second season at Houston, is benefitting from what was left to him by his predecessor. Fuente spent four years at Memphis, turning it from nothing into something and apparently leaving something of value as they are 3-0 right now.

If you think Herman is the guy you want, fine. But Fuente has the better resume.

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Norte Dame just fired their defensive coordinator. Bob needs to follow suit or take over the defense and make Mike the bus driver.

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I see the same thing in Fuentes as I did when I saw Urban Meyer at Utah, although  not quite as certain.  Great coaches have offenses and defenses that look rehearsed.  They actually seem to practice the plays.   I see it in Mangino and wonder what he would have done at OU with good talent.  I saw it in Leach. 

Given the facilities and tradition of OU, I think that Fuentes would be better.  I was absolutely certain of Meyer.  Leach did a much better job at Tech and gave OU and Texas fits without being able to recruit that kind of talent to Lubbock.

I wouldn't be surprised if we were able to coax Freeze from Mississippi, and he has done more with less.

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I'll take the job for a million per year, 5 year guaranteed contract. We will have more money to spend on assistants that way and can hire the very best. That way I can let them coach during the games while I eat hot dogs, smoke and talk to the cheerleaders.

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shinerburke wrote:
I'll take the job for a million per year, 5 year guaranteed contract. We will have more money to spend on assistants that way and can hire the very best. That way I can let them coach during the games while I eat hot dogs, smoke and talk to the cheerleaders.

Is that you Barry?

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Bob Stoops already did his run of coordinator changes and it didn't work out.

Brent Venables was doing a poor job at Oklahoma, but then got better at Clemson after getting away from Bob Stoops.

Oklahoma had the talented offensive lines and defensive lines in 2003 and 2004 and had the talented offensive lines in 2007 and 2008, but still failed to get the job done.

There is nothing Bob Stoops can do to turn things around at this point, he's already exhausted everything. He's had a good run at Oklahoma, but it's time to move on.

I wouldn't be shocked in the least if he went somewhere else and did a great job. Sometimes a person just needs a fresh start and it would be good both for Bob Stoops and Oklahoma. Of course, at this point in life, I am sure he would just retire and pursue his secondary lifelong dream of coaching youth basketball somewhere.

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There are only 3 coaches on my list Bilechek, Meyers, and Satan. otherwise its a crap shoot I'd rather not throw. I'm pretty sure I spelled 2 of their names wrong.

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charliedontsurf wrote:
There are only 3 coaches on my list Bilechek, Meyers, and Satan. otherwise its a crap shoot I'd rather not throw. I'm pretty sure I spelled 2 of their names wrong.

Three for three.

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charliedontsurf wrote:
There are only 3 coaches on my list Bilechek, Meyers, and Satan. otherwise its a crap shoot I'd rather not throw. I'm pretty sure I spelled 2 of their names wrong. I guess I'm under informed who are these guys?

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2 Proven winners who know how to motivate and in Swinney's case, recruit at a super high level: Gary Patterson and Dabo Swinney. Trouble is, Swinney will probably replace Saban one day. Also, Clemson is such a beautiful place to live versus Norman, so not sure there is an upside right now for Dabo. Patterson might be a different story. Great football mind. Already planted in the SW, so not a big lifestyle change.
If Fuente can make VT relevant again, maybe he IS the right fit.

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palmettosooner wrote: If Fuente can make VT relevant again, maybe he IS the right fit.
A coach that has won in a place where it's not easy has to have something.  David Cutcliffe would be a top candidate for me if he wasn't 147 years old.  If their 3-1 start is an indicator of the rest of the season Jeff Monken at Army might be an up-and-comer.  Jeff Brohm at Western Kentucky is another guy that interests me.

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tennsooner wrote:
Sadly I now find myself in favor of him being replaced. I honestly think Bob was the best Coach Oklahoma has ever had. What he did in this day and age of College football is unreal but I do believe he has reached a point in his life he is no longer willing to do what needs to be done.
I don't blame him for that but it's time to move on to someone who is looking to make their mark and make whatever sacrifices are required to have a top flight program.
I have no idea who that person is but they are out there.


I hate to disagree but there are more than a few coaches who has done or equaled him this past decade. The Big 12 now is very similar to the conference Boise State was in at the time of their run. What Saban and perhaps Meyer are doing are unreal ..what Pete Carrol would have done had he stayed at SC would be unreal. Bob has been a very good coach but imo its the Big games that make great coaches. But he's right up there with Jo Pa and Loyd Carr. Then you have Bud, Switzer, OZ, Hayes and Meyer with the top of Saban and the Bear up for grabs.

Last edited on Wed Sep 28th, 2016 02:15 pm by Manoewar

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Manoewar wrote:
tennsooner wrote:
Sadly I now find myself in favor of him being replaced. I honestly think Bob was the best Coach Oklahoma has ever had. What he did in this day and age of College football is unreal but I do believe he has reached a point in his life he is no longer willing to do what needs to be done.
I don't blame him for that but it's time to move on to someone who is looking to make their mark and make whatever sacrifices are required to have a top flight program.
I have no idea who that person is but they are out there.


I hate to disagree but there are more than a few coaches who has done or equaled him this past decade. The Big 12 now is very similar to the conference Boise State was in at the time of their run. What Saban and perhaps Meyer are doing are unreal ..what Pete Carrol would have done had he stayed at SC would be unreal. Bob has been a very good coach but imo its the Big games that make great coaches. But he's right up there with Jo Pa and Loyd Carr. Then you have the Bud, Switzer, OZ, Hayes and Meyer with the top of Saban and the Bear up for grabs.


Do a bit of in depth research on what Bud and Barry did and then get back with me on what was so amazing. Keep in mind running a clean program and actually beating a team with a pulse when you are looking at things. You won't be too impressed believe me.
As far as the other figure out why they are successful and tell me you want wins bad enough to do that. Personally I'd rather take the high road.

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How about firing Mike Stoops and getting Les Miles as defensive coordinator. People at LSU and OSU hated Miles conservative nature on offense. He might be a guy better suited for a coordinator role. I have a feeling he'd recruit great athletes and we'd havea much better defense. Now OU would probably have to cough up a higher than normal salary for a coordinator. I think Bob is fine as long as he has good assistants.

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ClintA.Adams wrote:
There's a lot of coaches I would take a chance on over Bob Stoops.
The reason for the differing views on this subject is really no more complicated than a difference of opinion on the issue Clint has articulated above. Some think recent years indicate Bob's best days are behind him and the chances of him repeating his earlier success are small. Others think he is one of the best coaches in the country and the chances of finding someone better are small. I am firmly in the second camp.

Look, I am as disappointed as anyone that we haven't won more national championships. It's now been longer since 2000 than it was from 1985 to 2000. I get that, and for someone who grew up on Switzer's teams in the 70s, it's a hard pill to swallow.

But make no mistake, replacing Bob would be taking a chance. A huge chance, because finding someone better is unlikely, to say the least. Sure, you can point to instances here or there where a new coach came in and set the world on fire. In fact, Switzer and Stoops were the poster boys for doing exactly that. But schools try all the time to hire the next hot young coordinator or up and coming HC. A few work out, but how many don't? Hundreds. It happens all the time. Even those teams with a lot of tradition have usually failed to replace a successful coach with someone of the same caliber. The next coach is a lot like the backup quarterback - everybody is sure he's bound to be better then the bum we got in there now - except that he hardly ever is.

Since Bob started in 1999, Oklahoma has won more football games that any program in the country except Boise State, who has played in the Big West, WAC, and Mountain West during that time. And, OU has averaged almost a win per season more than the third place team. Just think about all of that for awhile. And you think you're going to just go out tomorrow and find someone better?

Saban and Meyer are the only coaches out there who can definitively claim to have a better resume than Bob. All the other names that get bandied about have either never actually won a NC (a pesky little point, that one), or have not demonstrated the ability to win at a high level over a period of time. So you're back to that taking a chance thing again, and hoping, hoping, hoping, that against all odds, we'll pull a rabbit out of the hat. Just think how many coaches there have been in recent years who seemed like the next big thing, and now, not so much (Sumlin, Briles, etc.). Heck, this time last year, some of you were ready to immediately anoint Lincoln Riley as our head coach, and now you want to run him out of town with Bob.

So which is taking the bigger chance - A) taking a flying leap on the flavor of the week hoping he earns his spurs at OU, or B) sticking with a coach who can point to performance over potential, who we know knows how to win at the highest level, and who, when he did slip a little, took steps to right the ship (think SS17)?

As I've said before, I'm not defending all of Bob's decisions or saying he couldn't have done some things better. I'm sure no one knows that more than he does. But of all the coaches you could name, I think the one who gives us the best chance of winning #8 in the next few years is Bob Stoops.

Last edited on Wed Sep 28th, 2016 06:28 am by Triple Option

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tennsooner wrote:
Manoewar wrote:
tennsooner wrote:
Sadly I now find myself in favor of him being replaced. I honestly think Bob was the best Coach Oklahoma has ever had. What he did in this day and age of College football is unreal but I do believe he has reached a point in his life he is no longer willing to do what needs to be done.
I don't blame him for that but it's time to move on to someone who is looking to make their mark and make whatever sacrifices are required to have a top flight program.
I have no idea who that person is but they are out there.


I hate to disagree but there are more than a few coaches who has done or equaled him this past decade. The Big 12 now is very similar to the conference Boise State was in at the time of their run. What Saban and perhaps Meyer are doing are unreal ..what Pete Carrol would have done had he stayed at SC would be unreal. Bob has been a very good coach but imo its the Big games that make great coaches. But he's right up there with Jo Pa and Loyd Carr. Then you have the Bud, Switzer, OZ, Hayes and Meyer with the top of Saban and the Bear up for grabs.


Do a bit of in depth research on what Bud and Barry did and then get back with me on what was so amazing. Keep in mind running a clean program and actually beating a team with a pulse when you are looking at things. You won't be too impressed believe me.
As far as the other figure out why they are successful and tell me you want wins bad enough to do that. Personally I'd rather take the high road.


Well for me, this would imply that Bud and Barry are not amongst the very best in CFB history and/or if Bob is better then he also supplants coaches like Ozborne and Hayes which puts him in the same breathe as Mayer and Saban and Carrol and even ahead of the Bear.

Trying to compare what the coaches did in other eras vs now is unrealistic which is why they are compared to others in there generational peer groups. If we are talking about clean programs and winning percentages then there are probably a few that would be right up there with Bob as well. Bob is like a Steve Spurrier to Meyer at UF had he stayed as long. Spurrier was a good to great coach and legend but I would give the edge to Meyer as their best coach.

I'm not denying that he is a good coach that has had great moments but at the end of the day those "NC" trophies are what matters to most. The rest of it are pieces to the body of work. He is not even up there with Bowden and I still consider Bud and Barry better then the great Seminole Coach. And before we say Bob was 2-0 head to head that would be like saying Saban and Stoops are equal based on their one on one matchups.

Last edited on Wed Sep 28th, 2016 02:40 pm by Manoewar

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cclift38 wrote:
How about firing Mike Stoops and getting Les Miles as defensive coordinator. People at LSU and OSU hated Miles conservative nature on offense. He might be a guy better suited for a coordinator role. I have a feeling he'd recruit great athletes and we'd havea much better defense. Now OU would probably have to cough up a higher than normal salary for a coordinator. I think Bob is fine as long as he has good assistants.

Not a bad idea at all.. plus his players seemed to have loved him and I mean run through brick wall love.

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First, Miles' background as an assistant is on the offense, not the defense.

Second, on general principles I would not wish for Oklahoma to be associated with him.

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Triple Option wrote:
ClintA.Adams wrote:
There's a lot of coaches I would take a chance on over Bob Stoops.
The reason for the differing views on this subject is really no more complicated than a difference of opinion on the issue Clint has articulated above. Some think recent years indicate Bob's best days are behind him and the chances of him repeating his earlier success are small. Others think he is one of the best coaches in the country and the chances of finding someone better are small. I am firmly in the second camp.

Look, I am as disappointed as anyone that we haven't won more national championships. It's now been longer since 2000 than it was from 1985 to 2000. I get that, and for someone who grew up on Switzer's teams in the 70s, it's a hard pill to swallow.

But make no mistake, replacing Bob would be taking a chance. A huge chance, because finding someone better is unlikely, to say the least. Sure, you can point to instances here or there where a new coach came in and set the world on fire. In fact, Switzer and Stoops were the poster boys for doing exactly that. But schools try all the time to hire the next hot young coordinator or up and coming HC. A few work out, but how many don't? Hundreds. It happens all the time. Even those teams with a lot of tradition have usually failed to replace a successful coach with someone of the same caliber. The next coach is a lot like the backup quarterback - everybody is sure he's bound to be better then the bum we got in there now - except that he hardly ever is.

Since Bob started in 1999, Oklahoma has won more football games that any program in the country except Boise State, who has played in the Big West, WAC, and Mountain West during that time. And, OU has averaged almost a win per season more than the third place team. Just think about all of that for awhile. And you think you're going to just go out tomorrow and find someone better?

Saban and Meyer are the only coaches out there who can definitively claim to have a better resume than Bob. All the other names that get bandied about have either never actually won a NC (a pesky little point, that one), or have not demonstrated the ability to win at a high level over a period of time. So you're back to that taking a chance thing again, and hoping, hoping, hoping, that against all odds, we'll pull a rabbit out of the hat. Just think how many coaches there have been in recent years who seemed like the next big thing, and now, not so much (Sumlin, Briles, etc.). Heck, this time last year, some of you were ready to immediately anoint Lincoln Riley as our head coach, and now you want to run him out of town with Bob.

So which is taking the bigger chance - A) taking a flying leap on the flavor of the week hoping he earns his spurs at OU, or B) sticking with a coach who can point to performance over potential, who we know knows how to win at the highest level, and who, when he did slip a little, took steps to right the ship (think SS17)?

As I've said before, I'm not defending all of Bob's decisions or saying he couldn't have done some things better. I'm sure no one knows that more than he does. But of all the coaches you could name, I think the one who gives us the best chance of winning #8 in the next few years is Bob Stoops.



Well, I guess we have to decide which is more important.... winning the most games or winning national titles. Alabama, LSU, Florida have all won multiple titles since 1999. OU is still #1 in the modern football era for wins, but that isn't an impressive fact in the CF world anymore. The fact that Boise St. has won so many games kinda proves that.

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palmettosooner wrote: Triple Option wrote:
ClintA.Adams wrote:
There's a lot of coaches I would take a chance on over Bob Stoops.
The reason for the differing views on this subject is really no more complicated than a difference of opinion on the issue Clint has articulated above. Some think recent years indicate Bob's best days are behind him and the chances of him repeating his earlier success are small. Others think he is one of the best coaches in the country and the chances of finding someone better are small. I am firmly in the second camp.

Look, I am as disappointed as anyone that we haven't won more national championships. It's now been longer since 2000 than it was from 1985 to 2000. I get that, and for someone who grew up on Switzer's teams in the 70s, it's a hard pill to swallow.

But make no mistake, replacing Bob would be taking a chance. A huge chance, because finding someone better is unlikely, to say the least. Sure, you can point to instances here or there where a new coach came in and set the world on fire. In fact, Switzer and Stoops were the poster boys for doing exactly that. But schools try all the time to hire the next hot young coordinator or up and coming HC. A few work out, but how many don't? Hundreds. It happens all the time. Even those teams with a lot of tradition have usually failed to replace a successful coach with someone of the same caliber. The next coach is a lot like the backup quarterback - everybody is sure he's bound to be better then the bum we got in there now - except that he hardly ever is.

Since Bob started in 1999, Oklahoma has won more football games that any program in the country except Boise State, who has played in the Big West, WAC, and Mountain West during that time. And, OU has averaged almost a win per season more than the third place team. Just think about all of that for awhile. And you think you're going to just go out tomorrow and find someone better?

Saban and Meyer are the only coaches out there who can definitively claim to have a better resume than Bob. All the other names that get bandied about have either never actually won a NC (a pesky little point, that one), or have not demonstrated the ability to win at a high level over a period of time. So you're back to that taking a chance thing again, and hoping, hoping, hoping, that against all odds, we'll pull a rabbit out of the hat. Just think how many coaches there have been in recent years who seemed like the next big thing, and now, not so much (Sumlin, Briles, etc.). Heck, this time last year, some of you were ready to immediately anoint Lincoln Riley as our head coach, and now you want to run him out of town with Bob.

So which is taking the bigger chance - A) taking a flying leap on the flavor of the week hoping he earns his spurs at OU, or B) sticking with a coach who can point to performance over potential, who we know knows how to win at the highest level, and who, when he did slip a little, took steps to right the ship (think SS17)?

As I've said before, I'm not defending all of Bob's decisions or saying he couldn't have done some things better. I'm sure no one knows that more than he does. But of all the coaches you could name, I think the one who gives us the best chance of winning #8 in the next few years is Bob Stoops.



Well, I guess we have to decide which is more important.... winning the most games or winning national titles. Alabama, LSU, Florida have all won multiple titles since 1999. OU is still #1 in the modern football era for wins, but that isn't an impressive fact in the CF world anymore. The fact that Boise St. has won so many games kinda proves that.

I think Boise State's history just may prove another point.  That is that even a school like Boise State that has it's roots firmly entrenched in the JUCO ranks and not in the old Division 1-A can find an acorn every once in a while.

Boise State is a private school founded by the Episcopal  Church in 1932.  It remained a JUCO until 1968.  It was not until 1998, 30 years, that Boise State really started winning.  They hired Dan Hawkins and Chris Petersen back to back and those two are the ones who really elevated Boise State in the FBS ranks.  They got lucky after Houston Nutt left for Arkansas.  Boise State has been pretty good since Petersen left, but they have dropped off some.  And remember they are in a weak conference.  They only play a couple decent teams every year.

Hawkins  left BSU for Colorado and we all know what he did at Colorado, he lost.  Chris Petersen has been at Washington for about four or five years now and he hasn't exactly turned that program around. 

How many times have we witnessed a head coach do great things at a school like BSU or Bowling Green and turn that success into a head coaching job at a major FBS team, only to fall flat on their face.  Bryan Harsin was the OC under Petersen and he turned that into the OC at Texas where he essentially flopped.  He goes back to BSU and is doing pretty good, but not great.  I keep asking myself why guys like Hawkins and Petersen can win big at a place like Boise State and not at a place like Colorado and Washington?

There is a good reason.

My point again is that most of us who try to defend Bob to some extent aren't opposed to OU going in a different direction.  Personally, I think OU would hurt itself by firing Bob.  Bob is highly respected by his peers.  He has a very good record over a long haul.  But, losing Bob, by firing him or him just leaving creates a situation where OU has to, once again, take the risk of hiring another head coach. 

It  was 10 years between Bud and Barry and 11 years between Barry and Bob.  The 11 years between Barry and Bob were close to the worst ever 11 years in OU's whole football history.  Between Gibbs and Bob were the worst four year period in OU's history.

I'm just not anxious to toss a darn good coach to risk the perils of replacing him with someone even remotely close to being as good.

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palmettosooner wrote:Well, I guess we have to decide which is more important.... winning the most games or winning national titles.
If we knew that replacing Bob would result in a national title, that would be one thing. But the simple fact is, we don't. And from observing the world of college football, instead it's MUCH more likely that replacing him would make us worse, not better. I think Bob IS our best shot at winning more national titles. I see why not everyone will agree with that - a lot of people have given up on him. I haven't, it's as simple as that.

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Triple Option wrote:
palmettosooner wrote:Well, I guess we have to decide which is more important.... winning the most games or winning national titles.
If we knew that replacing Bob would result in a national title, that would be one thing. But the simple fact is, we don't. And from observing the world of college football, instead it's MUCH more likely that replacing him would make us worse, not better. I think Bob IS our best shot at winning more national titles. I see why not everyone will agree with that - a lot of people have given up on him. I haven't, it's as simple as that.



All I'm saying is that if you are satisfied with winning everything other than championship games, ( and games vs Clemson), then you will be happy. If you want to see your team win national titles, it aint lookin good.

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If you look at Bob Stoops overall body of work, only Saban and Buyer are better due to national titles.

If you look at Bob Stoops from 2009 and beyond, I think there are a number of coaches that could do better than what Bob Stoops has done at Oklahoma. And ask yourself this, what major college football program has lost by 21 or more points more than Oklahoma has since 2009 and beyond? Maybe Nebraska who hasn't been relevant in a long time. I don't think there is one. I'm not certain on that, but it isn't good in Oklahoma's favor.

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Walt wrote
"My point again is that most of us who try to defend Bob to some extent aren't opposed to OU going in a different direction.  Personally, I think OU would hurt itself by firing Bob.  Bob is highly respected by his peers.  He has a very good record over a long haul.  But, losing Bob, by firing him or him just leaving creates a situation where OU has to, once again, take the risk of hiring another head coach. 
It  was 10 years between Bud and Barry and 11 years between Barry and Bob.  The 11 years between Barry and Bob were close to the worst ever 11 years in OU's whole football history.  Between Gibbs and Bob were the worst four year period in OU's history.
I'm just not anxious to toss a darn good coach to risk the perils of replacing him with someone even remotely close to being as good."


I realllllly want to see us win another (or more) national championships before I get a seat way up in the sky.
But it you replace good coaches, you are taking a chance you get Snickerdoodle, or John Blake, or Gomer Jones, or Gary Gibbs. Some were nice guys, and some were decent coaches, but some were disasters. You don't know how a new coach at a new school will do. It may not be pure chance, but there is no sure thing in a new hire. So do we keep a very good coach who runs a program with class, honesty, and only very minor student miscues? Or do you take the chance on a new coach?

My opinion is that you put pressure on the head coach to replace assistants that are not highly productive, keep Bob Stoops but let him hear and feel the dissatisfaction with his failures, and appreciation of his many good actions.

Also, when you fire a highly successful coach with integrity, are you sending a message that wins are more important than integrity. You stay if you win, even at all cost? Some would assume that is the message.

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SoonerMike wrote:
Walt wrote
"My point again is that most of us who try to defend Bob to some extent aren't opposed to OU going in a different direction.  Personally, I think OU would hurt itself by firing Bob.  Bob is highly respected by his peers.  He has a very good record over a long haul.  But, losing Bob, by firing him or him just leaving creates a situation where OU has to, once again, take the risk of hiring another head coach. 
It  was 10 years between Bud and Barry and 11 years between Barry and Bob.  The 11 years between Barry and Bob were close to the worst ever 11 years in OU's whole football history.  Between Gibbs and Bob were the worst four year period in OU's history.
I'm just not anxious to toss a darn good coach to risk the perils of replacing him with someone even remotely close to being as good."


I realllllly want to see us win another (or more) national championships before I get a seat way up in the sky.
But it you replace good coaches, you are taking a chance you get Snickerdoodle, or John Blake, or Gomer Jones, or Gary Gibbs. Some were nice guys, and some were decent coaches, but some were disasters. You don't know how a new coach at a new school will do. It may not be pure chance, but there is no sure thing in a new hire. So do we keep a very good coach who runs a program with class, honesty, and only very minor student miscues? Or do you take the chance on a new coach?

My opinion is that you put pressure on the head coach to replace assistants that are not highly productive, keep Bob Stoops but let him hear and feel the dissatisfaction with his failures, and appreciation of his many good actions.

Also, when you fire a highly successful coach with integrity, are you sending a message that wins are more important than integrity. You stay if you win, even at all cost? Some would assume that is the message.


And if you're a fairly established HC (Tom Hermann), are you really going to want to go to a place that dismissed the winningest coach in the history of the school?
Why do you think the Whorns had to settle for Charming Charlie? They were rejected by several of their top choices.
Why not wait until a Nick Saban or Bob Stoops or Urban Meyer decide to retire?
Or go to a place that should be a power, but poor coaching hires have led them to low levels (OU in the 1990s).

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The coach that I would want to hire would want to beat Saban, not match Stoops'' record.  The great coach thinks he  can replace a legend and exceed his best year on an annual basis.

Actually, Bud and Barry didn't replace chopped liver.  Never gave it a second thought.

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sybarite wrote:
The coach that I would want to hire would want to beat Saban, not match Stoops'' record.  The great coach thinks he  can replace a legend and exceed his best year on an annual basis.

Actually, Bud and Barry didn't replace chopped liver.  Never gave it a second thought.


Neither Bud nor Barry were replacing a fired Coach. Both were bright young coaches who had never been a head coach. Both were brought here by their friend when hired as head coach. The successor to both did not have success.
When hired as head coach, both Bud and Barry knew they had great athletes already on campus, ready to win big time. They didn't have to give it a second thought, they knew they were going into a great situation.

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ClintA.Adams wrote: If you look at Bob Stoops overall body of work, only Saban and Buyer are better due to national titles.

If you look at Bob Stoops from 2009 and beyond, I think there are a number of coaches that could do better than what Bob Stoops has done at Oklahoma. And ask yourself this, what major college football program has lost by 21 or more points more than Oklahoma has since 2009 and beyond? Maybe Nebraska who hasn't been relevant in a long time. I don't think there is one. I'm not certain on that, but it isn't good in Oklahoma's favor.

I don't think any of the side issues that some like to raise.  FSU got beat by Houston and just got clobbered by Louisville.  So, by this kind of logic FSU should give Jimbo the heave-ho.

You nailed it.  Satan and Buyer are the two coaches that have a limited downside when it comes to winning.  The only real downside to Satan is his age and the fact that I just don't like him and think he is not good for college football.  I don't really like Buyer either.  The other coach following Satan and Buyer are Patrino and who wants that one. 

David Shaw is the one current head coach that I really like.  I think he is an outstanding coach and a high character type of guy.

I think any other coach out there is going to be a crap shoot. 

Another thing that is bothering me about OU's recruiting is the State of Texas.  Texas has some good players, but they aren't loaded with talent.  Neither is A&M.  I keep wondering if we are in one of those recruiting cycles where the talent just  isn't there.  I know our home grown talent hasn't been up to standards in a long time.  No team is really winning with a majority of Texas talent.

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I also wonder if the Texas high schools largely switching to spread offenses has taken the football player out of the football player so to speak.

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Manoewar wrote:
tennsooner wrote:
Manoewar wrote:
tennsooner wrote:
Sadly I now find myself in favor of him being replaced. I honestly think Bob was the best Coach Oklahoma has ever had. What he did in this day and age of College football is unreal but I do believe he has reached a point in his life he is no longer willing to do what needs to be done.
I don't blame him for that but it's time to move on to someone who is looking to make their mark and make whatever sacrifices are required to have a top flight program.
I have no idea who that person is but they are out there.


I hate to disagree but there are more than a few coaches who has done or equaled him this past decade. The Big 12 now is very similar to the conference Boise State was in at the time of their run. What Saban and perhaps Meyer are doing are unreal ..what Pete Carrol would have done had he stayed at SC would be unreal. Bob has been a very good coach but imo its the Big games that make great coaches. But he's right up there with Jo Pa and Loyd Carr. Then you have the Bud, Switzer, OZ, Hayes and Meyer with the top of Saban and the Bear up for grabs.


Do a bit of in depth research on what Bud and Barry did and then get back with me on what was so amazing. Keep in mind running a clean program and actually beating a team with a pulse when you are looking at things. You won't be too impressed believe me.
As far as the other figure out why they are successful and tell me you want wins bad enough to do that. Personally I'd rather take the high road.


Well for me, this would imply that Bud and Barry are not amongst the very best in CFB history and/or if Bob is better then he also supplants coaches like Ozborne and Hayes which puts him in the same breathe as Mayer and Saban and Carrol and even ahead of the Bear.

Trying to compare what the coaches did in other eras vs now is unrealistic which is why they are compared to others in there generational peer groups. If we are talking about clean programs and winning percentages then there are probably a few that would be right up there with Bob as well. Bob is like a Steve Spurrier to Meyer at UF had he stayed as long. Spurrier was a good to great coach and legend but I would give the edge to Meyer as their best coach.

I'm not denying that he is a good coach that has had great moments but at the end of the day those "NC" trophies are what matters to most. The rest of it are pieces to the body of work. He is not even up there with Bowden and I still consider Bud and Barry better then the great Seminole Coach. And before we say Bob was 2-0 head to head that would be like saying Saban and Stoops are equal based on their one on one matchups.


Let me make this easy for you. If you could coach in any era which teams do you think gives you the best chance to be successful? The teams Bud faced, the teams Barry faced, or the teams Bob faced? Bob had the most difficult path of all of them and it isn't even close. He not only did it he did it the right way.

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This has been a good conversation by everyone.

I don't know what I want, really. But I would be very surprised if Stoops ever wins another NC though. And that's the point of it all for me. Big 12 championships are kinda nice, sure. Like how steamed vegetables next to the steak can taste kinda good too.


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oklahomazeppelin wrote: This has been a good conversation by everyone.

I don't know what I want, really. But I would be very surprised if Stoops ever wins another NC though. And that's the point of it all for me. Big 12 championships are kinda nice, sure. Like how steamed vegetables next to the steak can taste kinda good too.



I think most of us fit into your camp.  We want to win.  We get all bent out of shape when we don't think OU football is where it should be.  But, the how to fix  it is very illusive.  I sure don't have the answers.  Change isn't always bad ... not always bad for the coach and not bad for the school.  But, simply changing for the sake of changing usually doesn't work out so good.

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oklahomazeppelin wrote:
I would be very surprised if Stoops ever wins another NC though. And that's the point of it all for me. Big 12 championships are kinda nice, sure. Like how steamed vegetables next to the steak can taste kinda good too.
So . . . you're saying this should be our new motto?


I think we could all be on board with that! :lol:

Last edited on Thu Sep 29th, 2016 01:11 pm by Triple Option

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UNFIRABLE...I'm a Stoops guy. Make no bones about it. If I really thought Oklahoma had a chance to land Tom Herman I'd say, OK, pull the trigger. That's only because I'm an anachronism and I like his throwback tough, physical, approach to preparing his team.
But when I read the article about him & UH in Sports Illustrated, his comments seemed to indicate he didn't have much respect or affinity for the Oklahoma program. I don't think he'd seriously consider the job.
Stoops hired Mike Leach when he arrived and probably forever changed the Big 12 from a power football conference to a finesse schemed version of the old WAC. So far this season I haven't a sterling defensive performance by anyone in the conference. K-St's effort against Stanford the opening week may have been the closest thing to it. The Big 12 teams just don't block or tackle well. Sad but true.
One ray of hope is the 2016 recruiting class and at least so far the 2017 upcoming class bode well for an improvement in football player talent & quality.
Anyway, this isn't LSU and right now Bob Stoops is
UNFIRABLE!!! Oklahoma's going to play out this season and depending on what happens Stoops future may or may not be evaluated after it's over. I think it most likely he'll be back (barring a losing record) and I'm just hoping he can restore the dominance he enjoyed in his first 6 or 7 years here.
Saturday's game is a turning point. Even my blind loyalty has limits.
Go Sooners!



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I see two camps:

Those who are satisfied with our current mediocre to good, but clean, program; and those who are not satisfied with our current mediocre to good, but clean, program.

Personally, I'm not satisfied with our current mediocre to good, but clean, program.

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JohnDa5id wrote:
I see two camps:

Those who are satisfied with our current mediocre to good, but clean, program; and those who are not satisfied with our current mediocre to good, but clean, program.

Personally, I'm not satisfied with our current mediocre to good, but clean, program.

Well, to be fair, I can't recall seeing any comments on this board that indicate anyone is satisfied with the current state of affairs (even though I'd say it is much better than mediocre). The other perspective might describe the two camps as those who think we're more likely to get where we want to be with Bob at the helm than by rolling the dice on someone who doesn't have the track record he has.

You know, we're all going to have our own opinions on this, and only time will tell if Bob gets us back to the top again or not. And there's no way to ever know if this coach or that coach or any coach who doesn't actually get hired would have done better. And even if one side completely convinced the other side, it still wouldn't make any difference one way or the other since we're not the decision-makers (and I feel fairly confident that Joe C. doesn't consult this board to see who the coach should be). My rambling point is, we're not ever all going to agree on this, and that needs to be OK. It doesn't mean one group are better fans than the other, it just means we have different opinions. And what would be the fun of a message board if we didn't? :D

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Triple Option wrote:
JohnDa5id wrote:
I see two camps:

Those who are satisfied with our current mediocre to good, but clean, program; and those who are not satisfied with our current mediocre to good, but clean, program.

Personally, I'm not satisfied with our current mediocre to good, but clean, program.

Well, to be fair, I can't recall seeing any comments on this board that indicate anyone is satisfied with the current state of affairs (even though I'd say it is much better than mediocre). The other perspective might describe the two camps as those who think we're more likely to get where we want to be with Bob at the helm than by rolling the dice on someone who doesn't have the track record he has.

You know, we're all going to have our own opinions on this, and only time will tell if Bob gets us back to the top again or not. And there's no way to ever know if this coach or that coach or any coach who doesn't actually get hired would have done better. And even if one side completely convinced the other side, it still wouldn't make any difference one way or the other since we're not the decision-makers (and I feel fairly confident that Joe C. doesn't consult this board to see who the coach should be). My rambling point is, we're not ever all going to agree on this, and that needs to be OK. It doesn't mean one group are better fans than the other, it just means we have different opinions. And what would be the fun of a message board if we didn't? :D

Correct Triple Option. I am in the camp that is not satisfied, but don't think firing a coach of a fairly successful program would likely be an improvement. It might end up being an improvement, but the odds are it won't. So I support the team and can only HOPE we improve.

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SoonerMike wrote:
Triple Option wrote:
JohnDa5id wrote:
I see two camps:

Those who are satisfied with our current mediocre to good, but clean, program; and those who are not satisfied with our current mediocre to good, but clean, program.

Personally, I'm not satisfied with our current mediocre to good, but clean, program.

Well, to be fair, I can't recall seeing any comments on this board that indicate anyone is satisfied with the current state of affairs (even though I'd say it is much better than mediocre). The other perspective might describe the two camps as those who think we're more likely to get where we want to be with Bob at the helm than by rolling the dice on someone who doesn't have the track record he has.

You know, we're all going to have our own opinions on this, and only time will tell if Bob gets us back to the top again or not. And there's no way to ever know if this coach or that coach or any coach who doesn't actually get hired would have done better. And even if one side completely convinced the other side, it still wouldn't make any difference one way or the other since we're not the decision-makers (and I feel fairly confident that Joe C. doesn't consult this board to see who the coach should be). My rambling point is, we're not ever all going to agree on this, and that needs to be OK. It doesn't mean one group are better fans than the other, it just means we have different opinions. And what would be the fun of a message board if we didn't? :D

Correct Triple Option. I am in the camp that is not satisfied, but don't think firing a coach of a fairly successful program would likely be an improvement. It might end up being an improvement, but the odds are it won't. So I support the team and can only HOPE we improve.

We now have a third camp:

Those who are not satisfied with our current mediocre to good, but clean, program; but who still believe our current leader can return us to the promised land.

Here's hoping this camp is right, because we all know there will be no coaching change while Bob "Won it all in 2001" Stoops wants the job.
[playing violin]

Cemetery Guy
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It's entirely possible that Bob could catch lightning in a bottle win three national championships in four years or some such.  Or he could finish with five or six losses this year and next.  Anybody who says they know for sure is full of it.

Recall that Saban's best season at Michigan State was 9-2 and his record for the four preceding years was 25-22-1.  Recall that in 2007 Urban Meyer had a Heisman winning quarterback, had won a national championship the preceding season and would win another national championship the following season, and somehow managed to go 9-4.  Recall that Gene Chizik, Les Miles, Bobby Ross, and Howard Schnellenberger have all won national championships, while the likes of Frank Beamer, Bo Schembechler and Bill Snyder have not.

Last edited on Fri Sep 30th, 2016 06:34 pm by Cemetery Guy

Triple Option
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Cemetery Guy wrote:
It's entirely possible that Bob could catch lightning in a bottle win three national championships in four years or some such.
That's what Tom Osborne did after going 21 years without ever winning one before. I vote for that. :D

(But without Lawrence Phillips please!)

Last edited on Fri Sep 30th, 2016 08:07 pm by Triple Option

SoonerRick46
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I'm with the group that thinks there really isn't an easy answer. There are so many variables in play.

First of all, where you are located has something to do with it. Oklahoma isn't exactly a hotbed for recruiting. Texas is close, but it's leverage on the country's talent is slipping to the likes of the South East and California.

We're getting some of the talent out of California, and some of it out of the south (a few from Georgia and Florida). But let's be real, not many of the elite players really want to come to Oklahoma for three or four years. Sure, we get a few, but not enough to make a difference.

Secondly the biggest problem I see with this team is Mike. His gameplans don't even pass a logic test. The only reason his 3-3-5 worked at all last year was because of Striker. Well, he doesn't have Striker this year and it really shows. You have to fit your defense to the personell you have. Mike simply refuses to do so and keeps putting square pegs in round holes. Que Einstein....

I just can't see Bob every firing Mike. I don't think he has it in him. Until that changes, nothing around here will. I don't care what anyone says (sorry Clint) history and current history is showing that defense wins championships (with rare exceptions that prove the rule). Bama didn't win all those championships with offense, they did it with a steel jaw defense. We haven't had a really good defense since 2008.

Finally, to consistently win NCs, you have to put the time in. Look at the hours Saban and Meyer put in each day, each week and each year. Bob decided a few years ago to put some balance back in his life for family. I've done the same thing where I work, but I've accepted I'm not going to move up much in my current job because I put my family over my job. Even Meyer has stated he had to learn something from Bob about work/life balance. But from I'm told, he still puts in 18 hour days every day of the season.

Finding another coach is a complete crap shoot. Especially when you look at the other limitations that OU has. Several top flight programs have been looking for new HCs over the last few years and how many have hired a HC that has one them a NC? A lot of things have to go right to win one. Having a not totally tight ship can help in that area as we have all learned. I don't want to go there either.

Bob is a very good coach, but he's not a Saban, Meyer, Bryant or Switzer. How many of those are really out there? A handful at best. If all your interested in is wins and another possible NC.....then hire Briles.

Bob needs to get rid of Mike, Kish and Cooks. Go find a real DC and let him hire his defensive staff. That will go a lot further towards a better result than firing Bob and go on a fishing expedition. And we all know why they call it fishing and not harvesting.

humblesooner
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SoonerRick46 wrote:

The only reason his 3-3-5 worked at all last year was because of Striker. Well, he doesn't have Striker this year and it really shows. You have to fit your defense to the personell you have. Mike simply refuses to do so and keeps putting square pegs in round holes. Que Einstein....


Rick - On this point, I have wondered about something for a few years now. When Mike came back, I thought I understood that they switched to the odd-man front because of the personnel available. They did not have enough big bodies to properly man an even-man front.
Bob and Mike's defense when they first arrived was even-man.
I thought the reason for moving to the odd-man was solid. But I fully expected them to go back to what I thought was their bread-and-butter, the even-man, after a couple of recruiting cycles.
Is my thought process not sound?

Last edited on Fri Sep 30th, 2016 09:53 pm by humblesooner

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What I don't understand and never will is that it is said time and again " we have to run this type of defense to compete in the Big 12 but yet Big 12 teams get their butts handed to them by teams that don't run this type of defense when they play out of conference. What gives with that?




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